Finding a Voice

I think it would be interesting to do some serious surveying of evangelicals and their ideas about HIV/AIDS. Is their statistical aversion to HIV/AIDS-related giving a lingering homophobia from the 1980's, is it just that they won't support anything that isn't abstinence-only, is it racism and classism against the African poor, etc.

The answers to these questions influence how progressive Christians interact with our evangelicals siblings in Christ in ways beyond HIV/AIDS issues. As we try to confront racism and classism in the world, both our own and that of others, we need to know how deeply engrained it is among evangelicals and other middle-class white Americans. As we try to work for the full equality of LGBTI persons, we need to know what preconceptions figure into people's trans- and homophobia. etc, etc etc.

Given the religious right's history of blaming victims for illnesses and of revulsion at the mere mention of the word "condom," I'll believe it when I see even 14% put their actions where their "faith" is.

Did anybody hear that the president of Pat Robertson's "Christian Coalition" resigned after only 4 months? He tried - and failed - to arouse the group's support for environmental and poverty issues and draw attention away from polarizing, political ones. The Coalition would have none of this progressive thinking because it wasn't focused enough on a "true" Christian agenda: eliminating legal abortion and eradicating gay rights.

As Friday Dec. 1st approaches & World Aids Day observances, let us hope that education dispels bigotries & pieties in favor of understanding & mobilizations. Is it possible to see World Vision & its rightist historical agenda as a leader in this re-education? I doubt it, for if even for a time they seem cooperative, it's just a matter of time until the conversionist scheme unearths its true self. Take Uganda, where Dubya has disallowed USAid from not only condom programs but family-planning. U.S. taxpayers, through Dubya's warped religiosity, promote abstinance-only on giant advertising billboards that are expensive wastes of money, with clinics on the ground disallowed to do anything differently: who the h... made our country & its State Dept. religous rightists? It's so laughable that, guess what, the natives laugh: death proceeds unabated, but a false principle is intact for piety's sake. Whattasham! Take Sri Lanka & the tsunami. At least 'aid' agencies were on the ground trying to minimize grief, but World Vision was illplaced even if its staff competed for toeholds to show its presence: a self-serving. Church World Service was there before the tsunami & immediately working to bring safe water to the devastated country, without ideology. CWS was in Uganda AND Africa in its soft-spoken way, without a conversionist scheme in the offing and facing-down the AIDS/SIDA dilemma with unquestioned service, not just for the short-term but the long-haul.
I don't trust World Vision as far as I can throw a piano & for good cause. The Samaritan Purse founding by its originator is even more odious & inappropriate, & Franklin Graham has been sanctioned by the State Dept. for good cause. I could not pen a penny to these imposters even if I tried. My support goes to Church World Service which is above reproach & uses a subminimal amount for administration which makes sure your contribution goes for your intention. Its ecumenical representation covers North American churches efficiently.
Rick Warren's megachurch is having a conclave on Friday with a host of conservative names on board but also Sen. Barak Obama. Perhaps it is just notoriety of the moment, but at least its a chance to nullify some standard & expected objections, not by mass but by simple representation. Altho' our blood supply has undergone upgrades in processing, some still look to Arthur Ashe with suspicion rather than compassion, even after objective evidence found the transfusion to be the carrier & infector. We need not only to find OUR voice but need to adjust both pitch & tone as well. When we do so, we then will be on the road to conquering this behemouth for ourselves & the world, but if the answer comes first from another country, so be it & praises be: we all ought to be cooperating in research anyway. But as for World Vision's place in the mix, I don't believe there is one.

as an "old school christian", i find it laughable at how the left labels me, and hundreds of millions like me as homophobic.
its easy, you'll never convince me that a man who has sex with another man is normal.period.
do i hate these men? no. am i scared of them? no. i take pity on them. why? because the bible says what it says. think of it like a speed limit sign. you can argue all day with the cop(god), but the sign says what it says. you go to fast, you broke the law. period. there is however an appeals process. admit you broke the law, promise not to do it again, and the cop (god) might just give you a warning.the key word being "might".
given that, the aids epidemic threatens every life on this planet, with the possible exception of the jehovahs.the message should be abstinence first, protection second. even we "old schoolers" are not so stubborn as to see that innocent people have been caught up in this plague.
but heres the dividing line, if you were truly an alliance, you would not attack me for my beliefs.and by doing so, you alienate me.if a person needs help, they need it regardless of their sexual orientation or class.
i truly believe there needs to be a middle ground in the religious world.if we christians cannot not get along with each other, how can we ask the other religions of the world to?

bean- the problem we have is that FIRST, if you do the proper Biblical research (and that does NOT mean just reading the translation of a translation of a translation), you will find that what seems so cut and dry- rules and regulations- isn't. I'm talking about the scriptures that are read to be against homosexuality. (I won't get into some of the deeper criticisms against a literal reading of scriptures.) There are some awe inspiring Bible scholars here who can explain this further (about the misunderstanding of those couple of passages).

Second, we hear people talk like you all the time- but when the truth comes out, they hate homosexual people. They claim to hate the sin but love the sinner, but it isn't so. I'm not saying that you are this way, but this has been our EXPERIENCE. It's like people forget that homosexuals are human beings as much as they are. In anthropology, it is referred to as "Othering". It's not good.

Third, you don't seem to realize it, but most fundamentalists want NO contraception whatsoever. Abstinence or pregnancy, and that's it is their creed and goal. You are an exception in saying protection- and many of the big name preachers would castigate or expel you for saying so. Yes, we would all agree that abstinence is the most effective way, but we live in a real world and have to deal with that fact. I also have a major disagreement with fundamentalism about the significance and importance of sex- it is NOT just for procreation. So on this topic you might find yourself more in alignment with us than you realize. (Recently a big name even spoke against MARRIED people using protection. That person is so wrong that it's scary!)

Fourth, we are tired of all the focus on what amounts to only a couple of (questionable) sentences in the Bible, when there are hundreds, if not thousands about treating the poor with mercy, justice, and kindness and AGAINST abuse of the poor. Abuse of the poor is rampant in fundamentalist churches. Every time you hear anything that blames the poor for their own problems ("poor work ethic", "Lazy", "Drugs", "Alcohol") you are listening to abuse of the poor that is contrary to scripture and Teyose's (Jesus's) teachings. The TRUTH is that most people are poor because of the decisions of others- to not pay a decent wage, to export jobs for more profit, raising rents sky high to gain more profit- "market value", you name it. Often alcoholism or drug use FOLLOWS poverty or homelessness- an attempt to escape the living hell that being poor really is. These beliefs come from 16th century heresy.

If you are willing to listen and not just harp on homosexuality, Biblical literalism, and some of the other regular troll topics of choice, you would be welcome.

You don't even have to agree. Just don't be a troll.

Condensed Bible

At one time God made man, man sinned god destroyed man except for righteous Noah and family are you can say God started over Romans enslaved Jews God did not like it. God found Mosses and had him lead Jews out of bondage for God had accepted the Jew as his chosen people. God saw that people needed rules or laws to live by. Mosses went to get Laws people while mosses gone People make golden Idol to worship God gets mad, God destroys then god forgives this cycle goes on and on, God decides humans like to sin, So God gave us humans Jesus Christ to forgive us for our sins, and one more time tell us how to live a Godly life. Humans go ape, think God only give Jesus for there sins, WRONG all sins but one. Gay is not the one Abortion is not talked about in the whole Bible. Reason

Religious Right want to talk about it and make against the law, just like old times they want to be God, God is getting mad. Remember God give us gold for its beauty Money so we didn’t have to carry a sheep or a goat to market. [Deut. . 24 Now the place the LORD your God chooses for his name to be honored might be a long way from your home. 25 If so, you may sell the tithe portion of your crops and herds and take the money to the place the LORD your God chooses. 26 When you arrive, use the money to buy anything you want--an ox, a sheep, some wine, or beer.] And like times be for humans don’t like gods rules, so they make their own. They have made God’s son into their Idol they name their church’s after Jesus some even pray to Jesus some put his image on a cross some want him in Government. Exodus [3 “You must not have any other god but me. 4 “You must not make for yourself an idol of any kind or an image of anything in the heavens or on the earth or in the sea.]
Some worship money and use it for every thing even to make money.
Can you blame God for being pissed