Some Sad Facts, Christian Priorities and Two Calls to Action

Thanks for the info-I called my (Minnesota) US Senators.

trish

What amazes me is just how the Hannity's and limbaugh's have made the case that this tax elimination will help the country. They have even made the case that eliminating the tax helps the average man....which is a downright lie. It is estimated that nearly 10 billion dollars a year will be taken out of the coffers for charitable organizations and why? Just so the rich can get richer.

They seem to operate under the myth of trickle down economics. If the rich have more money, they'll buy more stuff which gives us more jobs. It was a joke during daddy Bush and it is a joke now.

This administration is guilty of increasing the gap between the haves and the have nots. And for a so-called born again Christian to take so many UN-Christ-like actions is the height of hypocrisy.

I just pray that 2006 will bring about some changes in House and Senate so that Bush doesn't get a free pass on all these projects and end his so-called mandate.

Salon Reports that cutting the estate tax for the super-rich is still very much in play:

Reporter: "Well, that's what the estate tax cut repeal, making it permanent, is, isn't it? There are some people who want to hand on billions -- hundreds of millions of dollars to their -- "

McClellan: "No, no. The tax cut you're talking about -- I don't know of any that are expiring this year. They expire in later years."

Reporter: "Right. But why at this point in our history is it justified, morally right, to do that?"

McClellan: "First of all, I'd have to dispute your characterization because all Americans receive tax cuts. We went through a very difficult time, economically, and our national economy is really a lifeline for that region that has been hit by this hurricane. We must continue to keep our national economy growing and creating jobs. The latest unemployment numbers are down to 4.9 percent last week, more than 4 million jobs created since May of 2003. We've made tremendous progress to keep our economy growing and get people -- and create jobs."

Reporter: "And there's no way to ask the richest people in America to sacrifice?"

McClellan: "And the economy -- keeping our economy growing stronger -- is important to helping with the rebuilding and recovery efforts on the ground. The last thing we want to do is take more money from lower-income Americans that have been affected by this and that have received significant help from those -- from those tax cuts."

Reporter: "That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about taking money from higher-income Americans."

McClellan: "And we're going to remain focused right now on our highest priority. Well, again, these tax cuts you're talking about, many of them expire in later years. I don't know of any that are expiring this year. But it's important to keep our economy growing and keep jobs being created."

Of course, what this reporter was talking about had nothing to do with tax cuts for "lower-income Americans." McClellan's gobbledygook on promoting economic growth is worthy of attention because it's precisely the kind of rhetoric we're going to hear in coming weeks and months as the GOP attempts to reassert control over the domestic agenda.

In its lead editorial on Sept. 6, the Wall Street Journal urged President Bush to "take steps to keep the U.S. economy growing."

According to the Journal: "Economic leadership also means instructing Americans on the link between tax cutting and the economic vitality needed to fund both Katrina relief and the war on terror. Predictably, the Bush tax cuts are under attack for denying revenue to the government and because they don't require 'sacrifice' in wartime. But the truth is that federal revenues are rising by an estimated $262 billion -- or roughly 14 percent -- this year thanks to the growth that followed the 2003 tax cuts. Republicans have been far too defensive on tax cuts, and Katrina is an opening to explain their necessity and to push for making them permanent."

But what the Journal won't say is that the increased revenue this year came not from tax-cut-driven growth but rather from an array of factors including the expiration of one of Bush's tax cuts, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. As for the rosy economic outlook posited by the Journal -- not so much.

The tenacious adherence by the president and other prominent members of the Republican leadership to the ideology of tax cuts in the face of a national emergency is causing consternation outside the White House briefing room as well.

New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman, a neoliberal and prominent supporter of the war in Iraq, was aroused from his slumber by Hurricane Katrina, and in his column earlier this week he went medieval on influential and "toweringly selfish" tax-cut zealot Grover Norquist, who has been quoted as saying he'd like to shrink the federal government until he can drown it in a bathtub:

"Mr. Norquist is the only person about whom I would say this: I hope he owns property around the New Orleans levee that was never properly finished because of a lack of tax dollars. I hope his basement got flooded. And I hope that he was busy drowning government in his bathtub when the levee broke and that he had to wait for a U.S. Army helicopter to get out of town."

-- Aaron Kinney

Isn't it funny how during the Clinton, years during which there were the taxes that W has repealed, that we had the longest sustained economic growth in our nation's history? How could that be if taxes weakened the economy?

All he is doing is putting more into the pockets of himself and his cronies. Do you the average citizen feel better off? Are you living the lie that you are better off just becuase the president and McLellan tell you that you are? Aren't you paying far more at the pump? Aren't you paying far more for all your goods? Aren't your jobs being shipped overseas because of a tax credit to do so for the companies? Isn't your healthcare costing so much more now because companies are cutting back?

But yet we have tax benefits for oil companies who are reporting record profits? Don't think that they are making those profits because of the tax credits...they are doing so on the backs of average Americans who are forced to pay what they charge. If getting the oil was costing the gas companies so much more is the reason that our prices are so high.......why is that they are making so many profits? Could it be because they aren't paying that much for the oil in the first place and that they are basically profiteering off our fear? I think so.

Hey guys and gals --

No worries about the Estate Tax. Bush and Co have so screwed up Hurricane Katrina management that most of their screwed up agenda is COMPLETELY off the table. Hopefully, this include the Supreme Court nomination to fill O'Connor's seat.

On second thought, I would LOVE for Bush to argue for the Etate Tax now, in the background of Hurricane Katrina. See, Bush does care for the poor, really. . . And I can sell you the Golden Gate Bridge.

Like that bumper sticker says, "Working people voting for Republicans is like sheep voting for wolves."

You try and claim Jesus ate with every one therefore he condoned the things they did...not true Jesus said "i did not come to change the law but to for fill it".And the law he was talking about "SAID A MAN WHO LAYS WITH ANOTHER MAN IS A ABOMINATION AND "WILL SURLY NOT SEE PARADISE".Now if there is another place in the Bible that is so specific about Homosexuals.please post it,if you or anyone else in your entire orgizination of lefties,know another verse that says specificaly,that Jesus condeoned Homosexuals please post it.
Do you people really think any Christians are going to buy into your Socialism?.Your Humanism?
I dont think sooooooooooooooo,If any of you are truly Christians i am a Duck

The Following Are Passages From Congress in 1963 Of the Communist Manifesto,And their Devious ways of infiltrating this Governmenbt And Country.Just Compare What They Say And What The Socilist Left Is Saying.How Many things Ring a Bell,With The Agenda On This Site,A socialist Site

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

Trish are you not Mr.Conyers Minion?
The estate tax is for a wealthy family who has made their money leaglly,paid income tax on it,pay investament tax on it,paid interest on it and when the parents die they take 40% of it in this death tax.i am not a rich person but i would not want what i leave my kids to be taxed three times then 40%.If you think that is ok Trish why not have it apply to you also??Just because you make less,you keep it all for your kids',sounds real unfair to me?
Do youn really think Mr.Trump should give half of his wealth to the Government insted of his childern getting it?? OH of course you do your a leftist Socialist

Are all you people on this site Communists or Socialists,it sure seems so.This is a Capitolist Sociaty and country if you hate it so go to Cuba And have all you want there,No you want to take a rich Country and tare it apart,you do not want to start at the bottom like Lenon,or Hitler did,you want to rip from the top down,can any of you show a socialistic or Communist Country that is existing today?i wonder why not? And what makes you think you people can build a better Country than what we have today.
You just throw red meat to the poor to get them all hyped up
More African Americans own their own homes under the Republicans than ever before
If you added up all the money the black businessman have made in 2005 or 2004 or 2003,any ONE of thoes years alone,and compared it to all of the countrys in the world their GNP. The black business men would be the eleventh richest nation in the world.please stop your scare tactics and propaganda.
and their is no health care per sae from the Federal Government But all States Have health care for the poor

Joseph,

Wrong thread my man....LOL. Looks like a righty got freaked by the excellent points which have been made here and they got their friends together. Too funny.

They went straight for the simple tactic of " If you don't like the country, then get out." It's not that people don't like the country, they don't like the direction that it is going. Is there anything wrong with that. I propose that the righties didn't like the direction the country was going in during the Clinton years. So would you have thought of yourself as a communist then? No....you simply felt that the country could do better. there is nothing wrong with that. I would have disagreed with you, but I would not have felt that you should leave the country or label you a communist.

If your child is screwin up, do you sit back and do nothing? No..you correct their actions so that they are a better child. You correct your child because you love them. The same goes with the government . If our forefathers didn't stand up to tyranny we would all have the British flag flying at our houses.

Oh btw....TOm....please source your statistics because they are entirely wrong. If you are so sure about your numbers...let us see them. Because the U.S. Census bureau just came out and said that more minorities are now poor now than before Bush.

"And what makes you think you people can build a better Country than what we have today."

So...uh....are you saying that you built this country?! Ummmm...this country was built long before you and I and by far greater people than you and I. This country is great because of its diversity and competing ideas. Wow, the righties are getting all riled up. Looks like they are lashing out because they are threatened by the numbers which show that most people feel that Bush is going in the wrong direction in most areas including economy, Iraq, and overall approval ratings are at an all time low. So the righties are feeling a bit cornered. It's ok guys...we promise not to accuse as being communists when you lose the congress and Senate in 2006.

Joseph, et al:

If supporting the estate tax is socialist--looks like we've been a "socialist" country for 100 years--how sad that all you can do is call people names. No one here is a communist and yes there are many real Christians here--look inside your own heart. Jesus commanded us to love even our enemies and you can't even seem to be nice to your fellow Americans who you disagree with...We're not the enemy, Joseph. Take a deep breath and pray and let go of some of your anger.

Several facts are important to remember:

The Estate Tax has been around for nearly 100 years and remains an important part of our federal revenue.
Repealing the Estate Tax would add trillions of dollars to our current federal deficit.
The Estate Tax would be more appropriately called the "Inheritance Tax", since it affects only the heirs of very large estates.

Increasing the effective rate on the Capital Gains Tax would not make up for changing or eliminating the Estate Tax.

Also......consider that by repealing the estate taxes you will virtually eliminate the estimated 25 billion dollars which are donated each year to charitable organizations because of the tax break this gives to the estates.

Trust me gang, do you really think you will benefit from this? No..you won't. If anything it will harm you.

Know what else will harm regualr folks? It's Bush's plan to eliminate fair prevailing wage in the KAtrina stricken areas. What does this mean? It basically means that during the rebuilding process, he has made it possible that companies will be able to pay far below what they would normally workers. Assuming that the majority of these workers will be from this area, he has esentially made it even more difficult on them. Their economy has been ruined, and now you tell these people you are going to pay them less? Why? Because we can't afford to pay them a fair wage? Why can't we afford it? And if we can't afford it, why are we talking about cutting even more taxes on people who can certainly afford it? Wouldn't paying the good people of New Orleans a fair wage, help to stimulate that economy? What is more American then? Keeping the estate tax or paying average workers less? BTW.....guess who this will benefit? The large corporations who will get all the federal money to do the reconstruction and then have to pay their employees less. And guess who is first on the list to go in....Halliburton....shocker

http://edworkforce.house.gov/democrats/katrinawageinfo.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/08/AR2005090802037.html

What a sad, Orwellian nation we live in. All of these Conservatives who follow not-so-boldly in the steps of Joseph McCarthy, who have not apparently learned the lessons the Third Reich, The Soviet Union, East Germany, and countless other fascist governments have taught. To question our particular version of capitalism (and to them, there is only one capitalism, it is glorious and good and beautiful always) is equivalent to being "unAmerican". To question anything "The Party" (Republican) does, or anything The Leader does, is "unAmerican". I wonder, do they honestly believe that Jesus would be "a good American capitalist"? Jesus went wild and threw a FIT when he found the money changers and lenders practicing (among other things) USURY in the temple, and yet USURY is precicely what "good American capitalist" bankers practice in this country today. "W" signed a bankruptcy bill which will put a tremendous hardship on millions of Americans who are already struggling to just SURVIVE (a bill lobbied for by the banks/credit card companies), and yet refuses to do anything about the ungodly (I do not use that term lightly) interest rates and penalties the banks charge. And while many Conservatives bemoan the welfare system, feeling in their heart-of-hearts that the poor are just a bunch of "deadbeats", where is their outrage over CORPORATE welfare, which costs us over 150 BILLION dollars a year (interestingly enough, about the exact amount that the devestation caused by Katrina is going to cost). Do they honestly feel that Jesus would approve of continuing to hand out tax breaks (like the repeal of the Estate Tax) and subsidies to the wealthy, and to the corporations and businesses they own, while the poor get poorer?

Over 45 MILLION Americans cannot afford Health insurance in this country, and since most doctors (not all, but most) and hospitals are first and foremost BUSINESS people in their hearts and minds, that makes for a very callous healhcare system where the rich never have to worry about getting adequate healthcare, and where the poor are just "---- out of luck". And remember this is the richest nation on Earth we are talking about.

What did Jesus actually say about all this? Well, in addition to "It is easier for a camel to travel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven", he also said "Woe to the rich, for they have their reward". He spoke of how when we do for "The Least of These" we are doing for Him. He spoke of it as if it were a blessed SACRAMENT, which IT IS.

I've heard the two opposing camps of Christianity described as The Church of Law (Conservatives), and the Church of Love (Progressives/Liberals), and I think that is a good way of wittling everything down. For those in the Church of Law, who have a fondness for (among other things) elevating Old Testament Law and Revelations to an equality with The Master's teachings, that Jesus repeatedly (REPEATEDLY) went against Old Testament Law. He made it pretty clear that stoning people to death, ritual washing of hands, not picking grain on the sabbath, avoiding sick or dying people because they were "unclean", and not allowing healing on the sabbath... these were all man-made idiocies, and had nothing to do with God's Will. Jesus, who said He had come to "uphold the Law and not to destroy it" was doing just that, because The Law which He had come to uphold was the TRUE Law of God, HIS TEACHINGS. And we know that EVERYTHING in the rest of the Bible, Old and New Testament MUST be weighed against these teachings because Jesus WAS (and IS) GOD. And Jesus criticized hoarding of wealth, and Jesus championed the cause of the disenfranchised, the powerless, the sick, the suffering, the poor.

Would Jesus be a good American capitalist? For all those in the Church of Law I would recommend they actually READ the gospels and decide for themselves.

And one last thing. For those who like to pull the "America love it or leave it" line (meaning, of course, love the fascist, greedy, intolerant America I envision, or leave it), I have this to say: YOU leave. My ancestors were here a couple of thousand years before the Europeans showed up to murder them and steal their land. And if you haven't learned the lesson of the evils of Manifest Destiny, the evils of embracing a philosophy of unquestioned loyality to a party or mindset devoted to unbridled greed, intolerance, and warfare... then you are light-years away from what men like John Adams and Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin stood for, and you are even further than that from what Jesus of Nazareth stood for.

Peace and Blessings.

Brother Damien, OCCA

Amen Bro. Damien

Petar --
"The estate tax is for a wealthy family who has made their money leaglly,paid income tax on it,pay investament tax on it,paid interest on it and when the parents die they take 40% of it in this death tax.i am not a rich person but i would not want what i leave my kids to be taxed three times then 40%."

Okay, guys, concept of Estate Tax/Inheritance Tax: the money left of the heirs is INCOME for the heirs (they earned it by correctly choosing their parents). As it is INCOME, it should be taxed; hence the Estate Tax/Inheritance Tax.

Tom -- Where do you get your very racist facts concerning AA? Why did you mention this group specifically and not others and what facts do you have?

Calling names and telling us to leave the country is the sign of cowardice. Did you approve of Clinton; did you leave the country.

BTW, Cuba has better childhood vaccinations rates than the US.

PS -- Tom, Petar, and Joseph are the SAME person. Same bad grammar, same poor spelling, same e-mail address. Multiple personalities do NOT enhance your argument, Joseph.

eoj is Joseph, too.

Best to ignore the interloper.

Oh too funny!! Not only does he steal the work of a 16 year old kid.....but he has mutiple personalities. I was wondering when suddenly three folks with the very same views come on. Good going leftie!!

It wasn't too hard to figure out his plegarism. If you notice, the font suddenly changed in his post by a size or 2.

christianlefty
Yea good going but byou forgot Petar,You Lefties are really funny,and absurd,you claim the oil companys are ripping off the people,did you ever hear of supply and demand in a capitolistic Country,Katrina,shut down the refining of gas,the supply is cut,so what do you Socialists think they should do give the gas to you,And why do we in this Country have no new refinearys,because of you tree huggers,so you get your conversation bs and have no new refinearys built in thirty or fourty years,so we pay more for oilm,the you piss and moan about how the corporate world is exploiting all of you

And the biggest con you you fringers tout is the poor the poverty line .The poor people you call poor rich compared to any other country,you quacks redefine poverty line,and con the people into thinking they are poor because they do njot drive a mercedes

The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:

Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.
As a group, America's poor are far from being chronically undernourished. The average consumption of protein, vitamins, and minerals is virtually the same for poor and middle-class children and, in most cases, is well above recommended norms. Poor children actually consume more meat than do higher-income children and have average protein intakes 100 percent above recommended levels. Most poor children today are, in fact, supernourished and grow up to be, on average, one inch taller and 10 pounds heavier that the GIs who stormed the beaches of Normandy in World War II.

While the poor are generally well-nourished, some poor families do experience hunger, meaning a temporary discomfort due to food shortages. According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), 13 percent of poor families and 2.6 percent of poor children experience hunger at some point during the year. In most cases, their hunger is short-term. Eighty-nine percent of the poor report their families have "enough" food to eat, while only 2 percent say they "often" do not have enough to eat.

Overall, the typical American defined as poor by the government has a car, air conditioning, a refrigerator, a stove, a clothes washer and dryer, and a microwave. He has two color televisions, cable or satellite TV reception, a VCR or DVD player, and a stereo. He is able to obtain medical care. His home is in good repair and is not overcrowded. By his own report, his family is not hungry and he had sufficient funds in the past year to meet his family's essential needs. While this individual's life is not opulent, it is equally far from the popular images of dire poverty conveyed by the press, liberal activists, and politicians.

Of course, the living conditions of the average poor American should not be taken as representing all the poor. There is actually a wide range in living conditions among the poor. For example, over a quarter of poor households have cell phones and telephone answering machines, but, at the other extreme, approximately one-tenth have no phone at all. While the majority of poor households do not experience significant material problems, roughly a third do experience at least one problem such as overcrowding, temporary hunger, or difficulty getting medical care.

The best news is that remaining poverty can readily be reduced further, particularly among children. There are two main reasons that American children are poor: Their parents don't work much, and fathers are absent from the home.

In good economic times or bad, the typical poor family with children is supported by only 800 hours of work during a year: That amounts to 16 hours of work per week. If work in each family were raised to 2,000 hours per year--the equivalent of one adult working 40 hours per week throughout the year--nearly 75 percent of poor children would be lifted out of official poverty.

Father absence is another major cause of child poverty. Nearly two-thirds of poor children reside in single-parent homes; each year, an additional 1.3 million children are born out of wedlock. If poor mothers married the fathers of their children, almost three-quarters would immediately be lifted out of poverty.

While work and marriage are steady ladders out of poverty, the welfare system perversely remains hostile to both. Major programs such as food stamps, public housing, and Medicaid continue to reward idleness and penalize marriage. If welfare could be turned around to encourage work and marriage, remaining poverty would drop quickly.

What Is Poverty?
For most Americans, the word "poverty" suggests destitution: an inability to provide a family with nutritious food, clothing, and reasonable shelter. For example, the "Poverty Pulse" poll taken by the Catholic Campaign for Human Development in 2002 asked the general public the question: "How would you describe being poor in the U.S.?" The overwhelming majority of responses focused on homelessness, hunger or not being able to eat properly, and not being able to meet basic needs.2

But if poverty means lacking nutritious food, adequate warm housing, and clothing for a family, relatively few of the 35 million people identified as being "in poverty" by the Census Bureau could be characterized as poor.3 While material hardship does exist in the United States, it is quite restricted in scope and severity. The average "poor" person, as defined by the government, has a living standard far higher than the public imagines.

Ownership of Property and Amenities Among the Poor
Table 1 shows the ownership of property and consumer durables among poor households. The data are taken from the American Housing Survey for 2001, conducted by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development and the Census Bureau, and the Residential Energy Consumption Survey conducted by the U.S. Department of Energy.4
You belong in Cuba,you come to america and think you will change it into a Socialistic Communist Country,if you are right and the Corporations run this Country along with your Illumanauti,do you think you can win LOL
I hope you are right ,and if they controll the Military,you poor fringers are in deep do do
This last ditch attempt to claim to Christians taking back Jesus is really funny.and you will not be laughing after the next election,you will be crying again "THEY STOLE THE ELECTION AGAIN"

Again you use information form the Heritage Foundation whose only job is to try to skew information to appease the conservative base of the Republican party. The facts are that more people are considered impoverished than before Bush came into power. More people...many more people no longer have health care since Bush came into power. He has done everything to give the rich many more breaks. He has done many more things which hurt the poor or middle class.

He gave tax breaks to oil companies who were reporting record oil profits on the backs of the average American. If it was so hard to refine oil or to even get enough to the refineries, how could oil companies be reporting the sharpest increase in profits than they have ever had. Not being able to get fuel out of the refineries would imply that the supply was low which would mean they would not have enough product out there which would mean that they would increase the price to make up for the supply shortfall. That makes sense. They would raise the price to keep their profit level. But that has not happened...their profits have risen sharply which would imply that there is plenty of stock....just higher prices. So your argument is preposterous and unfounded.

Petar..whoever you are...again with the America....love it or leave it rhetoric.....as someone else said.....were you thrilled during the Clinton years? If not, why didn't you leave the country then?

The right wing has worked hard to try and conjoin conservatism and Christianity in the mind of the American public. Based on some of the comments here, it is safe to say that they have been successful.

However, the lesson most Americans are taking away from the recent debacle is that conservatism is nothing like Christianity.

When decent Americans look at the Bush economy, Iraq, and Katrina they see the true face of conservatism. They see the consequences of simple greed pretending to be a political philosophy.

Chrislefty
I voted for Clinton his first term,however when i saw the moral decay he was infusing into this Country i voted for Bush.I had been a Democrat for 37 years,as my entire family,Parents Grand Parents.But it is sad to say my Parents would roll over in their graves,if they say what the Democratic party nis today.My Father referred to the Party as the "working mans party,or the blue collar party,I refer to it as the party of the fringe.69 senators,repesentives,congressmen have admited to being Socialists,Under the banner of Progressives,go to their site,read what they say,they want a reconstruction of America,and a end to Democracy as we know it,if you follow their link it takes you to their Socialist agenda,i will post part 0f it:

Socialism in America
Socialism in America is alive, well, and growing. Aided by such influential Congressmen as John Conyers, Ranking Member of the House Judicial Committee, David Bonior, the pit-bull-dog who successfully whipped Newt, Maxine Waters, the President's outspoken defender in the impeachment debates, and nearly 60 other Representatives, socialism is advancing in America behind the "Progressive" label. Here are a few excerpts taken directly from the web page of the Democratic Socialists of America. (Italicized emphasis provided)

"The Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) is the largest socialist organization in the United States, and the principal U.S. affiliate of the Socialist International. DSA's members are building progressive movements for social change while establishing an openly socialist presence in American communities and politics.

"At the root of our socialism is a profound commitment to democracy, as means and end. We are activists committed not only to extending political democracy but to demanding democratic empowerment in the economy, in gender relations, and in culture. Democracy is not simply one of our political values but our means of restructuring society. Our vision is of a society in which people have a real voice in the choices and relationships that affect the entirety of our lives. We call this vision democratic socialism - a vision of a more free, democratic and humane society.

We are socialists because we reject an international economic order sustained by private profit, alienated labor, race and gender discrimination, environmental destruction, and brutality and violence in defense of the status quo.
We are socialists because we share a vision of a humane international social order based both on democratic planning and market mechanisms to achieve equitable distribution of resources, meaningful work, a healthy environment, sustainable growth, gender and racial equality, and non-oppressive relationships."

Here is what "Liberty" looks like to a socialist:

"A democratic commitment to a vibrant pluralist life assumes the need for a democratic, responsive, and representative government to regulate the market, protect the environment, and ensure a basic level of equality and equity for each citizen. In the 21st century, such regulation will increasingly occur through international, multilateral action. But while a democratic state can protect individuals from domination by inordinately powerful, undemocratic transnational corporations, people develop the social bonds that render life meaningful only through cooperative, voluntary relationships. Promoting such bonds is the responsibility of socialists and the government alike.

"The social welfare programs of government have been for the most part positive, if partial, responses to the genuine social needs of the great majority of Americans. The dismantling of such programs by conservative and corporate elites in the absence of any alternatives will be disastrous. Abandoning schools, health care, and housing, for example, to the control of an unregulated free market magnifies the existing harsh realities of inequality and injustice."

The action agenda posted on the socialists' web site very closely parallels Agenda 21, and the recommendations of the President's Council on Sustainable Development. The web site boasts the creation of the "Progressive Caucus" in Congress, as well as the coalition that is working to promote the socialist agenda in Congress.
Congressional Members of the
Progressive Caucus

Rep Earl Hilliard (AL-07)
Rep Eni Faleomavaega (AS-AL)
Rep Ed Pastor (AZ-02)
Rep Lynn C Woolsey (CA-06)
Rep George Miller (CA-07)
Rep Nancy Pelosi (CA-08)
Rep Fortney "Pete" Stark (CA-13)
Rep Henry A. Waxman (CA-29)
Rep Xavier Becerra (CA-30)
Rep Julian C. Dixon (CA-32)
Rep Esteban Edward Torres (CA-34)
Rep Maxine Waters (CA-35)
Rep George E. Brown (CA-42)
Rep Bob Filner (CA-50)
Rep Diane DeGette (CO-01)
Rep Eleanor Holmes Norton (DC-AL)
Rep Corrine Brown (FL-03)
Rep Carrie P. Meek (FL-17)
Rep Alcee L. Hastings (FL-23)
Rep Cynthia A. McKinney (GA-04)
Rep John Lewis (GA-05)
Rep Neil Abercrombie (HI-01)
Rep Patsy Mink (HI-02)
Rep Jesse Jackson (IL-02)
Rep Luis Gutierrez (IL-04)
Rep Danny Davis (IL-07)
Rep Lane Evans (IL-17)
Rep Julia Carson (IN-10)
Rep John Olver (MA-01)
Rep Jim McGovern (MA-03)
Rep Barney Frank (MA-04)
Rep John Tierney (MA-06)
Rep David Bonior (MI-10)
Rep Lynn N. Rivers (MI-13)
Rep John Conyers (MI-14)
Rep Bennie G. Thompson (MS-02)
Rep Melvin L. Watt (NC-12)
Rep Donald Payne (NJ-10)
Rep Jerrold Nadler (NY-08)
Rep Major Owens (NY-11)
Rep Nydia M. Velazquez (NY-12)
Rep Charles Rangel (NY-15)
Rep Maurice Hinchey (NY-26)
Rep John LaFalce (NY-29)
Rep Marcy Kaptur (OH-09)
Rep Dennis Kucinich (OH-10)
Rep Louis Stokes (OH-11)
Rep Sherrod Brown (OH-13)
Rep Elizabeth Furse (OR-01)
Rep Peter A. DeFazio (OR-04)
Rep Chaka Fattah (PA-02)
Rep William Coyne (PA-14)
Rep Carlos A. Romero-Barcelo (PR-AL)
Rep Robert C. Scott (VA-03)
Rep Bernard Sanders (VT-AL)
Rep James A. McDermott (WA-07)

Progressive Coalition supporting socialist agenda

http://www.dsausa.org/pdf/TheoryPractice.pdf

you may wish to read where the Democrat party wants to take us.The reconstruction of America,the revision of our economic system.Let us say they were to gain power and change America into their utopia,how long would it take,who would suffer,do we first have a Cuba for 30 years?a Russia,.There is no Socialist Government to draw from,they claim many Countrys have Socialistic atributes,but so does the USA.
The Socialists have been after America for 60 years all over the world thay have been infiltrating Countries along with their big brother Communism.Where is their a better Country?
Do not be fooled they are not against Bush and Republicans,they use them as a vehicle for enough hatred to make people want change,then guide the people down their road
The things ive posted are not my conseption.many of you in the left are being led with out knowledge of where you are going,all i say is do not be blinded by hate and discontent.Where do you think the huge machiene of Communism has gone?where is the driving force of Russia's yesterday?,Right here cloked in Socialism,which is a tool,You first have Socialism,then you have have the ones who want power,before you get up in the morning you have a Communist country.
When I said the things I said were not my conseption i ment the statements about Socialism and the agenda go to the sites read for your self it is not a anti site,its Their own site Democratic Socialists of America
Religon is being used as a way yo divide,they get more people aqrguing for Jesus no matter which side they are on, than they would claiming "we want to change Amereica into a Socialistic Country".
John Conyers has introduced a bill claiming to be a anti Hate bill a tollerance bill,however it strips Americans of freedon of speech,this is the doudle talk from the Socialists, in reality this is a anti hate bill for Islam,so no one could say anything negitive about Islam,even if true.EXAMPLE IN PRETORIA AUSTRALIA THEY HAVE SUCH A BILL,AND TWO PREACHERS WERE ARRESTED FOR A HATE CRIME,BECAUSE IN THEIR CHURCH THEY READ FROM THE QURAN,WHERE IT SAID "KILL THE KNFIDEL WHERE YOU FIND HIM". NOW JUST speaking can be a hate crime?????

here is Conyers Bill res.288

Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives condemning bigotry and religious intolerance, and recognizing that holy books of every religion should be treated with dignity and respect.

Whereas believers of all religions, including the Abrahamic faiths of Christianity, Judaism and Islam, should be treated with respect and dignity;

Whereas the word Islam comes from the Arabic root word meaning “peace” and “submission”;

Whereas there are an estimated 7,000,000 Muslims in America, from a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds, forming an integral part of the social fabric of America;

Whereas the Quran is the holy book for Muslims who recite passages from it in prayer and learn valuable lessons about peace, humanity and spirituality;
Whereas it should never be official policy of the United States Government to disparage the Quran, Islam, or any religion in any way, shape, or form;

Whereas mistreatment of prisoners and disrespect toward the holy book of any religion is unacceptable and against civilized humanity;

Whereas the infringement of an individual’s right to freedom of religion violates the Constitution and laws of the United States: Now, therefore, be it

1 Resolved, That the House of Representatives–

(1) condemns bigotry, acts of violence, and intolerance against any religious group, including our friends, neighbors, and citizens of the Islamic faith;

(2) declares that the civil rights and civil liberties of all individuals, including those of the Islamic faith, should be protected;

(3) recognizes that the Quran, the holy book of Islam, as any other holy book of any religion, should be treated with dignity and respect; and

(4) calls upon local, State, and Federal authorities to work to prevent bias-motivated crimes and acts against all individuals, including those of the Islamic faith.

Uh...Joseph.....buddy.....friend. Did you read the bill you just posted? Did you? Show me where in that bill does it state:

"however it strips Americans of freedon of speech"

"in reality this is a anti hate bill for Islam,so no one could say anything negitive about Islam,even if true."

The bill simply states that the same rights afforded other religions and their teachings should also be afforded to Islam. that's it. You are freaking out simply becuase it gives someone other than a Christian, the same rights you are afforded. It's similar to the gay marriage argument. You spaz when you hear that someone that you do not like gets the same civil rights. Go ahead and tell me that you are ok with people practicing Islam and I will tell you that you are lying.

You are so blinded by hatred and ideaology that you are not seeing this for what it really is. Do you think that individuals who practice Islam have not come under fire of late because of some of the extremist views of a small segment of their population. Can you not see that this bill simply reaffirms that to act out against these individuals simply elevates the crime to a hate crime as well which affords an even greater sentence. What is so difficult to see here.

It is not part of some socialist or Communist agenda!!!! That is pure drivel man and it is getting incredibly old. I am beginning to think that you are absolutely obsessed with this way of thinking. McCarthy has nothing on you in this department.

What disturbs me is this line

"John Conyers has introduced a bill claiming to be a anti Hate bill a tollerance bill,however it strips Americans of freedon of speech,this is the doudle talk from the Socialists, in reality this is a anti hate bill for Islam,so no one could say anything negitive about Islam,even if true"

What really bothers me is the last three words....even if true....saying something negative about Islam, even if true. This shows to me that you think Islam is wrong. There is nothing wrong with the religion, there are people who do things in the name of Islam that are wrong...but these are the human followers. In m,uch the same way that the KKK uses Christianity to rationalize the hatred of all non-caucasian peoples. Should I take this to mean that all of Christianity is wrong..NO!!!

I am beginning to rethink my hesitation to think of you as a fascist. You are starting to represent the truest form of this way of thinking. I have not made up my mind yet. Please show me that my inclinations are wrong.

In reference to your story from Pretoria, Australia. Show me your source. I suggest that the preachers said much more than just read from the Quran. So show me the entire story and what they said after their reference to the Quran. But I suspect you will not be able to do that. Am I wrong, Triad? Prove me wrong. Show me that you have considered all the facts before jumping to a conclusion.

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