An Interview with Kathleen LeRoy, Christian Alliance for Progress V.P.

Kathleen has a very interesting background, and it's great to see a woman in a lead role! Thanks for this.

Kathleen,if you were a Christian you would not call people right wing,what exactly do you mean by ringt wing whackos?,All Christians follow the Bible,and only the Bible,as the unfalable word of God,The things you Radicle Left purpose are not in the Bible,Gay 's getting married,Abortion,and many other things,by calling othersright wingers you are trying to blur the line,and make others think there is this groupe {THE RIGHT WING} that is radicle,has a long tail and horn's,True Christians follow the Bible,what ever it say's,but they do NOT follow what it does not say,the Bible says Homosexuality ia a abomination.
"jesus said pick up your cross and follow me"If you do not follow Christ you are no Christian period,if you falter you are still saved,if you repent.
The new Democratic try at convincing Christians ,that they to are followers of Christ will not work,your party is immoral,Anti Christian,[it is the left wing that has taken God out of our Schools,and out of our Countrys,]it is you who turned Merry Christmas,into Happy Hollidays.People will laugh at your crude attempt to say you are Christians,you statements such as Jesus said this or that,anyone can see you took a sentence out of the Bible{have no meaning of the contex]but say it says something it does not even mean,you just make it apply,but it does'nt,AS Christians most of us believe Abortion is murder,BUT we would not make it against the law,what we want to change is that our taxes do not go to pay for Abortions,i do not want to be apart of murder,if a woman wants to have 15 abortions that is her business,just dont ask me to pay for it.That is what we want to change.You'r Godless Planned Parenthood,and the law we do want to change,i do not want YOU and our Government telling me,my Daughter can have a abortion at age 14 with out telling me.IF she breaks my neighbors window,he sue's me am responsible
It is a obvious tatic you saw that you lost,by the CHRISTIAN vote,not the right wing vote,so now you Democrats claim GOD,and that is laughable, you asnd the Naacp condone the filth rappers spew ,you also blocked legislation against por. on the interned called it freedom of speach,[i guess thats because Larry Flint is one of your Christians,you stand for everything immoral in this Country,many of you are pot smokers,many meth users,you wish to repeal the war on drugs,you wish to repeal,mandatory sentencing,Your NAACP wishes to give felons back their rights at the door when they are released from prison thaqt includes[murderers rapists,pedofiles,gang bangers etc.]The reason wouldeen't be? because criminals certianly wouldent vote republican,or independent,and if you took away mandatory sentencing,they might even vote Democraticly!
So my Dear Girl you have a long row to hoe,......and honestly its laughable
My Father his Father,and our whole family were Democrats,i am the very first to leave,I voted for Clinton his first four years[i have been a Democrat for 37 years]I voted for Bush,,the Democratic party of my Father was a party of the working people,he owned his own business for 45 years,However you are not my Fathers Party,You are the party of the Fringe of sociaty

i guess there is no freedom of speech on this Christian site

Wow, I think I need to go take a shower after reading that comment. And then lock the doors. Downright creepy, if you ask me.

Raised an Episcopalian? I knew there was something I liked about you, Kathleen!

Karen Armstrong is great, isn't she? "The Battle for God" should be required reading for anyone wanting to understand the fanaticism we are witnessing both here and abroad. Have you read her more personal volume, "The Spiral Staircase"? Excellent. I recently passed it on to my wife to read, who will then be passing it on to a close friend, who is a former nun.

"I refuse to roll over any longer but I am going to stand up and speak my beliefs! This organization is a way for me to reach out to what I believe are the millions of Americans that feel the same way I do."

Absolutely. It is time to speak truth against power.

JOHN JUST WHAT IS THE FANTICISM YOU ARE WITNESSING HERE IN AMERICA IS IT PEOPLE FOLLOWING THE BIBLE?.THERE IS NO OTHER FANTICISM,ESPECIALLY BY CHRISTIANS,OH YOU MAY CALL THAT KOOK WHO KILLED A ABORTION DOCTOR A CHRISTIAN BUT HE WAS WITH NO CHRISTIAN CHURCH OR GROUP HE WAS A LONE WHITE SUPREMICIST,AS TIMOTHY MCVEIGH,AS THE KKK, THESE PEOPLE ARE FATINATICS BUT THEIR IS NI CHRISTIAN GROUP.WHO EXACTLY ARE YOU CALLING FATINATICS??AND IF YOU SAY THE RIGHT WING PLEASE IDENTIFY JUST WHO THEY ARE,WHAT DO THEY DO,OR BELIEVE TO MAKE THEM RIGHT WING FATICNATICS,I BELIEVE YOU PEOPLE USE THIS TERM,TO MAKE OTHERS,EVEN OTHER CHRISTIANS BELIEVE THERE IS THIS ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE,YOU CHRISTIANS DO NOT LIKE,TRUTH BE TOLD YOU ARE NO CHRISTIAN,AND DO NOT LIKE CHRISTIANS,BUT THINK TELLING IT AND COMMING FROM A CHRISTIAN,MABY,JUST MABY ,YOU CAN CATCH A FEW CHRISTIANS,TO HELP YOUR CAUSE.THE LAST ELECTION PROVED THAT CHRISTIANS WILL NOT LET YOU TAKE THIS COUNTRY,THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT ON CHRIST,BUILT ON GOD,YOU WILL NOT MAKE AMERICA GODLESS.
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY YOU HATE CHRISTIANS SO MUCH,BECAUSE YOU CANNOT TWIST OR CHANGE OUR MINDS,YOU CANNOT PERVERT OUR BELIEVFS YOU HATE US??WE HATE NO ONE,I DO NOT HATE GAYS,I BELIEVE ITS WRONG,WHY CAN'T I HAVE MY OPINION,I BELIEVE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS,,WHY CANT I HAVE MY BELIEF WITHOUT BEING CALLED ,FATINATIC,RACIST OR BIGOT BY YOU PEOPLE ,EVEN DEAN AND H.CLINTON SAY YOU MUST BE MORE INCLUSIVE,EMBRASE PRO LIFE,BECAUSE YOU LAWYERS AND ACTIVISTS KNOW THEIR IS NO VICTORY WITHOUT THE CHRISTIANS,AND YOU'R RIGHT.
JOHN PLEASE RESPOND TO THIS POST,WHO ARE THE RIGHT WING,WHAT DO THEY BELIEVE,AND WHAT DO THEY DO TO HURT ANYONE?

John:

Read the hatred in the words quoted in the Jacksonville Declaration--do these religious leaders really reflect Christian love to you? We are peacemakers here and we want to make sure that people understand that the ministry of Jesus is about love and not hate.

Now to answer your question: what are the common features of the American Religious Right? It is a fundamentalist movement that largely rejects any modern method of Biblical interpretation but instead takes even the beautiful poetry of the Psalms literally, thereby failing to appreciate its deeper and essential meanings; many of its adherents focus a lot of energy on End Times prophecy, which accounts in part for less emphasis on the Gospels, the actual ministry of Jesus; it is anti-intellectual and hostile to science which it views as a threat rather than an aid to healing; it has great confidence in its own moral judgments, particularly those relating to sexuality and reproduction and in this way it reflects our culture's obsession with sex more than either the Bible or the spiritual kingdom; it focuses its efforts at spiritual and moral renewal on 'the other' rather than 'the self'; it rejects the separation of church and state, pluralism, and is hostile to the moral claims of tolerance--despite the historical record that these values are an aid to both peace and religious freedom; it is politically reactionary and often seems rooted in nostalgia, like so many previous movements of the right; finally, while it has some variations and ideological cleavages, there are many common cultural, political and financial linkages.

How's that for being specific?

When you cast these stones at Kathleen and the rest of us, please remember, there are many ways to serve but we all serve the same Lord.

Peace,
FP

ERIC ROULDOUGH IS NO CHRISTIAN,HE IS A INDIVIDGUAL,THAT HAS A SICK DISTORTED CONSEPTION OF CHRISTANITY,JUST AS THE KKK,THEY MAY THINK THEY ARE FOLLOWING CHRIST,BUT THEY OBVIOUSLY DO NOT
IT IS DISENGENOUS TO USE HIM AS A EXAMPLE AS A CHRISTIAN,AND YOU KNOW THAT,YOU ARE BASHING CHRISTIANS,BY WAY OF HIM,USING HIM,ALLUDING HE IS A RIGHT WINGER,THEN TRYING TO BRING DOWN YOUR HATRED ON REPUBLICANS,WHEN YOU USE THE WORD

RIGHT WINGER,WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS REPUBLICAN CHRISTIANS,IN THIS WAY,YOU THINK YOU CAN SPLIT CHRISTIANS,AND GET SOME OF THE CHRISTIAN VOTE,THIS IS A HIDIOUS SCHEAM,IT IS SOMETHING ALDOPH HITLER WOULD CONCIEVE,DIVIDE AND CONQUER,OBVIOUSLY YOU THINK CHRISTIANS ARE STUPID,
AFTER ANY NEGITIVE COMENT ONE OF YOUR ACLU STAFF MEMBERS,WRITES A KIND OF RETORT NOT TO ANSWER BUT TO TAKE THE STING OUT OF THE COMENT.
JOHN IF YOU WERE ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS YOU MISSED COMPLETLY AND WROTE WHAT PROPAGAND YOU WANTED TO,THE BIBLE STATES "IT IS A ABOMINATIONJ FOR A MAN TO LAY WITH ANOTHER MAN,AS IT IS FOR A MAN TO LAY WITH ANIMAL"NOW CAN YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHERE IT TAKES THESE WORDS BACK AND REVERSES IT SELF .THE GAY AGENDA ,YOU,THE DEMOCRATIC LEFT CAN NOT CHANGE THESE WORDS NO MATTER WHAT PHYSCO BABBLE YOU USE CHRISTIANS KNOW CHRIST CAME TO SAVE MANKIND NOT TO FEED THEM,HE DID NOT GO TO THE GOVERNMENTS OF THE WORLD AND SAY CREAT WELFARE,HE DID NOT GO AROUND GIVING PEOPLE MONEY

YOU ARE NOT PEACEMAKERS,YOU ARE WEDGE DRIVERS,TRYING TO DRIVE A WEDGE BETWEEN CHRISTIANS AND REPUBLICANS,I AM POSITIVE MOST REPUBLICANS GIVE MORE OF THEIR OWN PERSONAL MONEY TO THE POOR THAN ANY OF YOU DO,WHAT YOU PEOPLE DO IS PETITION THE GOVERNMENT TO GIVE GIVE GIVE,BUT YOU DO NOT GIVE,SURE THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD HELP THE POOR,BUT SHOULD THEY,SHOULD I,PAY FOR A LUNG TRANSPLAQNT FOR A SMOKER OF 40 YEARS?SHOULD I PAY FOR HOUSING FOR CRACK ADDICTS,SHOULD I PAY FOR A TRANSXUAL'S OPERATION SHOULD I PAY FOR HUNDREDS OF ABORTIONS ,THERE IS SUCH A THING CALLED SELF RESPONCIBILITY
LETS TAKE A PERSON WHO DROPED OUT ODF SCHOOL AT 16,USED DRUGS,GOT MARRIED,GOT DIVORCED ONE YEAR LATER,HAD A CHILD,GOT MARRIED AGAIN ,HAD ANOTHER THREE KIDS,,WORKS A CIRCKE K,,HAS ACOUPLE MORE KIDS,WORKS AT ANOTHER THREE OR FOUR MENIAL JOBS,THEN AT FOURTY FIVE JOINS THE LEFT WING OF THE DEMOCRATS,AND CRYS "I CANT MAKE ENDS MEET'"'I NEED MORE MONEY,MINEUM WAGE IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH,"I CANT LIVE ON THIS,I NEED HEALTH CARE,MY CHILD NEEDS BRACES,I,I,I,
THE OTHER GUY GO'S THROUGH SCHOOL,GOES TO COLLEGE FOR 8 YEARS,DOES NOT USE DRUGS,DOES NOT HAVE CHILDERN UNTILL HE CAN AFFORD TO,WORKS 12 TO 14 HOURS A AND HE SHOULD PAY FOR THE OTHER GUY?.NOW HELPING THE POOR,HELPING THOES THAT CANNOT HELP THEMSELVES IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO,AND WE ARE ALL COMMANDED TO DO SO,BUT YOU WANT BIG DADDEY DEEP POKETS,THE GOVERNMENT TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING .I GIVE MORE TO THE POOR AND HELPLESS THAN ANY THREE OR FOUR OF YOU ACLU LAWYERS.,YOU THINK MAKING THE G
GOVERNMENT PAY IS ALL YOU NEED TO DO
ON ANOTHER PAGE YOU TALKED ABOUT THE POOR IN THE USA,WELL THE POOR IN THE USA ARE RICH COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE WORLD,THE POOR TODAY,HAVE A CAR,COLOR TV,PERHAPS A LARGE SCREEN,HAVE A CD PLAYER HAVE A COMPUTER,HAVE AT LEAST 60.OO DOLLAR SHOES,AND ALTHOUGH MAY NOT HAVE A LIFE TIME GAURNTEE MOST EVERY ONE IN AMERICA HAS HEALTH CARE,EACH STATE HAS THEIR OWN DEPARTMENT THAT PAYS FOR HEALTH CARE FOR THE POOR,NO POOR PERSON GOES WITHOUT DOCTOR'S CARE IN
AFRICAN ,EVEBN CRIMINAL'S THAT BREAK THE LAWS AND SNEAK IN TO THIS COUNTRY,GET FREE HEALTH CARE ,THAT IS A DOCTOR,A OPERATION IF NEEDED IT , THE AFRICAN AMERICAN BUSINESSMAN IN THE USA,IF THEY WERE TO PUT THEIR MONEY TOGATHER THEIR GNP WOULD MAKE THEM THE 11TH LARGEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD
THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR FRAUD,YOU TALKED OF WELFARE HOW BAD IT IS,I SAY YOU LOOK A GIFT HORSE IN THE MOUTH,NO ONE IS OWED WELFARE, NO ONE IS OWED HEALTH CARE,
MY FATHER DIED BECAUSE HE DID NOT HAVE THE MONEY TO HAVE DONE WHAT HE NEEDED IN A HOSPITIAL,HE DIDNT EXPECT THE GOVERNMENT TO PAY,AS A MATTER OF FACT HE WOULDEN'T EVEN LOOK INTO IT,A LONG TIME EMPLOYEE OFFERED MY FATHER MONEY TO PAY FOR IT,MY FATHER REFUSED.HE DID NOT WANHT THE POSIBILITY OD DYING AND OWING SOMEONE,BUT YOU PEOPLE TODAY THINK YOU ARE OWED BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN AMERICA
A MAN WANTED TO FOLLOW CHRIST,HE ASKED WHAT SHOULD I DO,CHRIST SAID,KEEP ALL THE COMMANDMENTS,THE MAN SAID I HAVE DONE THIS SINCE I WAS A CHILD,CHRIST SAID PICK UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW ME,THE MAN SAID OK ,BUT I NEED TO GO HOME FOR TWO DAYS AND BURRY MY PARENTS,CHRIST TOLD HIM,LET THE DEAD BURY THE DEAD THERE IS NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN FOLLOWING CHRIST AND PROCLAIMING HIS NAME.THE REST IS DEAD .YOU BURRY THE DEAD OR FOLLOW CHRIST,YOU CAN NOT DO BOTH
JOHN WHO EXACTLY ARE THE RIGHT WINGERS YOU TALK ABOUT ,WHAT DO THEY DO,AND WHAT IS THEIR BELIEF,PLEASE BE MORE SPECIFIC THAN YOUR LAST OFF POINT RETORT

JOHN

This is what you replyed to my question,what do you mean when you call others right wing,or more perciscly what is the right wing and what do they believe your answer was this:

what are the common features of the American Religious Right? It is a fundamentalist movement that largely rejects any modern method of Biblical interpretation

John there is no Method of MODERN Interpertation of the Bible,unless it is the one put fourth by the left wing Democratic party,
no one can modernize the Bible,it was inspired by God,Who moderenized it john,and was "he" also inspired by God,or did God just go to his house and tell him to change it.John obviously you have no real conseption of Christainity,if you contend the Bible can be Modernized by,the Gay Agenda,or Johyn Conyers,you are sadly wrong,i can not even believe you claim to be a christian,and make a statement like that.John who do you believe has the athority to change,to modernize the BiblejPLEASE RESPOND<TO THIS QUESTION.

and if you have the adussity to tell me the Espiscapalions [The ones[i believe] the ones who have that big riff,and more than half of the churcfh left because they changed the rules to have a Gay Minister]these are not a mainstream Christian church's ,men cannot change the laws of God
JOHN THE VATICAN REJECTS HOMOSEXUALITY<ARE THEY RIGHT WING WACKOS??PLEASE ANSWER ME.are the Methodists,the Luthern's,are the baptist's',are you actualy saying anyone who rejects a modern interpertation of the Bible ,Right wingers?????

Thank you Kathleen for having the courage to share your faith and your politics. I'm a blue Christian progressive in a red state, working at a mainly red church -- pray for me. I applaud the Christian Alliance for Progress and hope to be part of your work. I found particularly helpful your comparing stem-cell research in our age with Jesus' healing on the Sabbath. This is exactly the kind of discussion that lead folks to repentance and conversion --- transformed hearts and minds. I encourage you to help those folks out in the trenches, in churches, and communities find ways to spread the word, share the message of the Christian Alliance for Progress. I pray that the same attention to detail will be given to offline discussions and forums --- that we move from a group organized on the web, to many groups meeting in homes, churches, and community centers across the country. Have you thought about "meet-up" type gatherings, perhaps where folks watch a film together and brainstorm about ways to be out and about in the public square? How about t-shirts? (fair-trade or made in the USA, non-sweatshop of course).

Thank you for your leadership, you and the Christian Alliance are a real inspiration.

John:

I'm not sure who you keep calling John, but I guess it's me, though that is not my name. This comes from the Jacksonville Declaration:

For many people, your words and actions have identified Christianity with radical, far right politics. We believe that your use of Christianity has sown the seeds of deep discord in our nation and throughout the world. Hear some of your own words:

"You owe liberals nothing. They despise you because they despise your Christ."
-- Church Leader Bob Jones, to George W. Bush after 2004 election

"I hope the Supreme Court will finally read the Constitution and see there's no such thing, or no mention, of separation of church and state in the Constitution."
-- House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas)

"Our job is to reclaim America for Christ, whatever the cost. As the vice regents of God, we are to exercise godly dominion and influence…in short, over every aspect and institution of human society."
-- Dr. D. James Kennedy, Coral Ridge Ministries

"…the liberal, anti-Christian dogma of the left has been repudiated…"
-- Tony Perkins, Family Research Council

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians … the ACLU, People For the American Way … I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen'."
-- Rev. Jerry Falwell, on Pat Robertson's 700 Club discussing the 9/11 attacks

I'm sure you'll agree that it is hateful and a lie to blame the ACLU for the September 11th Attacks. Isn't it extreme and the height of arrogance (when Jesus urges humility before God) to pretend that you understand God's will sufficiently to blame a horrible mass murder on people who had nothing whatsoever to do with these attacks? Doesn't Jesus urge us to love even our enemies---even if you twist that word to say liberals are somehow your enemy--don't you owe them something? Isn't it extreme to say that someone like Father Jake or Kathleen despises Christ--when they have tried to model his love throughout their lives?

FP

It would be helpful for Christian Alliance to bring theologians of different denominations and groups of Christians together to share resources, particularly theological and historical material. The truth is that many mainstream Christians are not aware of the progressive voices in their own traditions --- We need to encourage people to read the bible not less but more seriously. We need folks to be listening to the voices of the Hebrew prophets who cry out for justice for the widow and orphans. Here's the real sin of Sodom:

"This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched." -- Ezekiel 16:49

We need Christians to read James, to read the Gospels, to read Paul -- but also to read the voices of their own traditions more closely. Read what St. John Chrysostom says on true Christianity in the 4th Century:

"This is the rule of the most perfect Christianity, its most exact definition, its highest point, namely, the seeking of the common good . . . for nothing can so make a person an imitator of Christ as caring for his neighbors."

The whole story of the Reformation involved transformation and change both for Protestants and Catholics. From the radical Francis and Clare of Assisi, to Luther's thesis to the Wesley's concern for the poor. All people of faith need to know about the faith and politics of Dorothy Day, Abraham Heschel, Peter Maurin, Margaret Mead, Henri Nouwen and Thomas Merton. All these folks were true believers and all involved in working for justice and peace.

Theologians such as Aquinas, Augustine, and Calvin all have important things to say about the role of government as well as the church in caring for the least of these. Each of them also have a lot to say about the right use of wealth. We need to engage these theologians and encourage believers to listen deeply to their challenges so that our nation might be transformed by truly Christian values.

Shalom

Are homosexuals to "conservative" Christians the same as tax collectors to pharisee's? Wouldn't Jesus call us to love homosexual's as neighbors? It is not up to me to judge what is right for someone else. God will judge me by the love I show my neighbor. I have a prayer I try to say every day: "Dear Lord, please help me show compassion today -- some days it is difficult not to be judgemental, but with your help I know I can succeed! Thank you."

Kathleen,

I can't tell you how thrilled I am that Progressive/Liberal Christians are FINALLY starting to mobilize. Bless you and all that you do!

And you can see how worried The Devil is, with Dr. Falwell's letter and The Heritage Foundation coming out against us. Because make no mistake, Satan's favourite method of spreading his lies and division around the world is to influence those whose hearts are full of hatred and intolerance, and get them to twist Our Lord's teachings, to claim that what they are doing is God's Work. But as we can tell by "their fruits", they do The Devil's work, and not The Master's. They champion the cause of the rich and ignore the poor and the sick, they spread a message of intolerance and exclusivity, and drive people by the millions away from Christ, because many have come to view these "religious" Righters as in some way validly representing Our Precious Master, Jesus Christ. They stand for war and prejudice and greed. They adhere to flawed Old Testament Law, which Jesus made clear they were NOT to do, instead of following HIS direct teachings. Instead of feeding and clothing the poor, and taking care of the sick, and visiting those in prison, and loving not only God with all their hearts, minds, and souls, but their neighbors equally so... they obsess over issues which are completely outside of Jesus' instructions. Like the Pharisees, they understand The Letter of the Law, and have no concept of its Spirit. And, exactly like the Pharisees, they do it all while waving a Bible and making a grand public showing of their supposed piousness. And that is the sweetest sound in all of Creation to The Devil's ears.

We must begin to stand up and shout to the world that that is NOT what The Lord Jesus Christ is about. We must spread the TRUE Good News, that Jesus' paschal sacrifice was for the ENTIRE Human Race, and that God loves all of Her children EQUALLY. Jesus preached about going "beyond the righteousness of the Pharisees", to leave false piety and man-made doctrines behind, and to embrace a new understanding of God; To love God, to love our neighbor, and to validate one's Faith by doing "for the least of these" and by seeking to fill our hearts with charity and humility and forgiveness and tolerance and compassion. And Hell? Jesus had something to say about that too, and it seems to us today, in the early 21st Century, to speak eloquently about how He might view the "religious" Right, the Ultra-Conservative Christians. For Jesus said that on dying there would be many pious souls who claimed to serve Him in life, who would see Him on the other side, and they would yell, "Lord, Lord!"...and He would turn to them and say, " I NEVER knew you". And THAT is Hell. Amen, and Blessings to you Kathleen.

Brother Damien, OCCA

I appreciate you so-called progressive christians. I'm using your material to help young christians understand the hatred, sophistry, manipulation, and ad hominum attacks they will face by those who hate God, both from outside of Christianity and with in it. Your anti-christian arguments are perfectly suited to our bible classes preparing students to give a Godly answer to those who promote homosexuality and every other evil promoted on this website!

THANK YOU FOR THE WONDERFUL INSTRUCTIONAL MATERIAL!!!

Mark,

I feel deeply sorry for your students, and for any young people that are fed a diet of "dispensational premillinialism". It is a sick, demonic version of Christianity, a sort of Satanism is its own right, for it teaches its followers to view Jesus as an Old Testament Pharisee, a promoter of division and intolerance. Jesus railed repeatedly against the Pharisees and Saducees, and precicely because they had come to worship the Letter of the Law and not its Spirit; because they had turned their backs on the "widows and orphans" in favour of a false piety and obsession over strict observance and worship of scripture and man-made doctrines. That Conservative Christians have chosen to embrace Old Testament Law and Revelations over Jesus' direct teachings is blasphemous enough, but to tie it all in with politics and greed...you can find ads for banks and financial investments on numerous "religious" Right websites. Conservative Christians just blatantly ignore the poor and the sick (tell me, PLEASE tell me of a Conservative minister who regularly preaches about the plight of the poor in this country, or about affordable Healthcare for all Americans, or calls his flock to concentrate on social work instead of politics and character assassination), and you champion the cause of the rich and the power-hungry.

It is interesting Mark, that instead of acknowleding the incredibly nasty nature of the letters sent to this website by Conservative Christians, or to try and actually ADDRESS the realty of the Far Right's abandonment of Jesus' ACTUAL directives in favour of a twisted version of Christianity that justifies greed and intolerance, you choose to label our stand for the TRUE gospel message as "hatred". Just remember one thing the next time you start to luxuriate in your love of Revelations...Jesus HIMSELF told us that it was senseless to obsess over the time and nature of His return, as ONLY the Father would know that, and that, as the faithful servants waiting for their Master, we must simply be prepared at all times for His return. And how do we do that? As I've said before, by going "beyond the righteousness of the Pharisee" and actually doing what Jesus told us to do (NOT St. Paul, and NOT St. John, and most definitely NOT Old Testament Law, which Jesus made clear was horribly flawed, and which He actually went AGAINST numerous times during His ministry). We must tell people that ALL are welcome at the table of the Christ, and that The Master doesn't CARE what political party or ideology or denomination you belong to. What He cares about is are we doing "for the least of these" and are we following the commandments HE said superceded ALL others?...That we love God with all of our hearts, minds, and souls, but EQUALLY so that we love our neighbors as ourselves. Blessings, and I pray for you and all on the Far Right.

Brother Damien, OCCA

One of the good things about this website and organization is your willingness to take different sides and arguments seriously. Unlike the Moral Majority Coalition or the Christian Coalition websites, anyone including harsh critics of this group can blog on this site. Just as Jesus was willing to listen to the voices of the Pharisees and the scribes even while he strongly challenged them, this organization is willing to be vulnerable for the sake of truth. Why is the Moral Majority and the Christian Coalition afraid to let challengers blog on their sites? Didn't Jesus say all the time, "fear not"?

I don't agree with everything on this site, but I do value the open, thoughtful and compassionate approach that its organizers seem to practice. The Religious Right has never spoken for me and my family. I am so grateful that there are more and more folks coming together to provide alternatives.

Mr. Damien,

Unless you are God Himself how could you declare I am a sick, demonic dispensationalist premillienist after thanking you for the anti-christian arguments you and your cohorts make on these web pages?

I think your article and your response is incredibly nasty! Instead of thanking me for presenting your arguments alongside the bible's arguments you spout sphomoric bile, venom and hatred!

Your explosion of venom is no doubt motivated by a conscience stung by knowledge of your weak and ineffective arguments.

My students could kick your intellectual behind and be much more gracious than you in the process.

Mark,

Would you care to specifically point out what exactly you find so "anti-Christian"?

Jake,

Greetings and Blessings. I wouldn't expect too much in the way of a real argument from Mark, or from any fundamentalist/premillinialist. You will note he did not respond to my request for him to name even one Conservative minister who regularly talks about the plight of the poor, or Healthcare for all Americans, who regularly encourages his/her flock to actually go out and do "for the least of these" (social work). I have never met such a one, and doubt that they exist, because they are too obsessed with praising "Dubya the president" and championing the Conservative agenda, an agenda which unabashedly champions the rich (woe to the rich,for they have their reward), the power-hungry (blessed are the meek, for THEY shall inherit the Earth), and those of a theocratic leaning (and unless you go BEYOND the righteousness of the Pharisees, in no way shall you enter the Kingdom of God).

On our side we have the direct teachings of The Master, Our Lord Jesus Christ, who preached against the false piety of the Pharisees and Saducees, two groups which obsessed over strict adherence to a very "literal" interpretation of scripture, who Jesus Himself accused of taking advantage of and/or ignoring the poor; who allowed the temple to become a marketplace; who hated the "heretic" Jesus because of His rejection of outdated and unjust scriptural mandates...Does all of this sound familiar? And yet the "religious" Right appear literally incapable of seeing that they have become modern-day Pharisees themselves.

I was approached one day by a fundamentalist woman downtown on the street. She handed me a sheet which, after simply glancing at it, made me physically ill. She represented a "Levitical" church of some sort, and she proceeded to ask me if I was a Christian. When I said yes, she asked if my church held to "Levitical Law" and started in on how the world had fallen away from "God's Will" (which was supposedly to be found in Levitical Law). When I asked her if she ever ate pork, or certain types of shellfish, or if she was careful about what types of fabric she wore with other types of fabric, she looked dumbfounded. I explained to her that #1 you could not pick and choose Levitical Law, that you had to follow ALL of it or none of it, and that she should ask a rabbi to verify that, and #2 that as a Christian she should have nothing to do with Levitical Law, since Jesus Himself had repeatedly rejected it (stoning people to death, ritual hand washing, not picking grain on the sabbath,not healing the sick on the sabbath, etc, etc, etc.) and replaced it with His teachings (the scriptural reference where Jesus says he has come not to destroy the Law but uphold it refers to the TRUE Law, THE LIVING WORD OF GOD, which is Jesus Himself,as He made abundantly clear in the gospels). Long story short, she began to back away from me, and eventually screamed at me to shut up, and that she didn't want to hear any more.

That's pretty much the mentality of the Religious Right. They (somehow) quite easily ignore what Jesus specifically told them they should be doing, in favour of dipping back into Old Testament Law and basing wild doctrines on Revelations (which was NOT part of Jesus' teachings). They happily will quote references to homosexuality, for instance, from St. Paul (who had formerly been a Pharisee, and dipped back into that tradition from time to time as he felt he needed to), and yet they don't advocate that EVERYONE who could possibly do so should remain celibate, which is also something St. Paul preached about. When was the last time you heard an evangelical minister railing about the plight of the poor in this country? And quite apart from discouraging the hoarding of wealth they actually ENCOURAGE it (they have financial seminars, discuss The Market on their TV and radio shows, and have financial ads on their websites), and yet Jesus not only said "woe to the rich, for they have their reward", He also said "it is easier for a camel to travel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven". They drive people by the millions away from Christianity by preaching a Hellfire message of exclusivity and esoteric "scriptural" obedience, and yet Jesus warned that for whoever would drive His children away from Him, it would be better if they had a millstone tied around their necks and they were thrown into the sea. They talk of a Holy War, of a spiritual "Jihad", which they are waging to "take back" the country, and yet Jesus said that it was the PEACEMAKERS that would be called The Children of God. I could go on and on and on and on and on.

The point is, they have no real argument when they stick to Jesus' actual teachings, and somewhere deep down they know that, and the are aware that they are not doing what they should be doing; that they are not feeding and clothing the poor, taking care of the sick, not hoarding wealth, and above all not only loving God with all their hearts,minds, and souls, but equally loving their neighbors as themselves, and these two commandments The Master declared were The Greatest. They try to worship two Gods, both Our Lord Jesus and Mammon, and they try to somehow justify greed and intolerance. They need to read the book of James if they want something good to read in the New Testament beyond Jesus' teachings. James, the head of the Church in Jerusalem, believed by many theologians to quite possibly have been the biological brother of Jesus (well, half brother), said that your Faith was as nothing if you did not validate it with good works, and that is indeed what Jesus Himself said ("as you do for the least of these"). These modern-day Pharisees might do well to consider that, and perhaps spend a little less time trying to polarize the country, worshipping Conservative ideology, and trying to use Our Lord's name to justify their nastiness.

Peace and Blessings Jake.

Brother Damien, OCCA

I happen to read some article in regard to his Bill Moyers speech about 9/11 and Conservative Christians. Here are some thoughts which may shed light on what you are trying to do:

For creation vs evolution read following:

http://bhagavadgitaasitis.com/14/en

BG 14.3: The total material substance, called Brahman, is the source of birth, and it is that Brahman that I impregnate, making possible the births of all living beings, O son of Bharata.

BG 14.4: It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father.

To know how atheists work - read the following:

http://bhagavadgitaasitis.com/16/en

BG 16.7: Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them.

BG 16.8: They say that this world is unreal, with no foundation, no God in control. They say it is produced of sex desire and has no cause other than lust.

BG 16.9: Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world.

BG 16.10: Taking shelter of insatiable lust and absorbed in the conceit of pride and false prestige, the demoniac, thus illusioned, are always sworn to unclean work, attracted by the impermanent.

Wishing You Well,